Die Verbannten Kinder Eva's

 •  Posted in: Kogaionon Interviews

For over 11 years I had a strong contact with Protector, if I am to name Richard Lederer's pseudonym for his Black Metal band SUMMONING. He's also involved in two other interesting bands, a Dark Wave one - DIE VERBANNTEN KINDER EVAS and a Dark Industrial one - ICE AGES. The reason beyond this interview is the completion of the recordings for a new DVKE album, one that will be released at Napalm Records in the end of October. This new material has been waited for several long years and it's the fourth. It seems that Richard has finally found the perfect collaborator after Tania Borski's departure, impersonated in a 19 years old adolescent, named Christina Kroustali or Lady Of Carnage. I can guarantee you that this album represents a true challenge for all kinds of listeners, and I truly recommend you to read the text below and afterwards enter their website (www.dvke.info) for further news and more interesting details. There's no point for me to remind you should buy this new album as it totally worth it! Enjow your reading!

Hello Richard, how do you feel now that you've completed a new album? Are you in the mood to talk about it?

Now that the CD is finished and still "fresh" in my mind, I am quite communicative about it, so you might be surprised about the huge answer I'm open to share with you. It's much more exiting these days to talk about DVKE than for example SUMMONING, after having already given like 100 interviews in the last months, always talking about the same stuff :-)

Which are the differences between the old and the new DVKE sound?

The new album is much more polyphonic than "In Darkness Let Me Dwell". You can compare its polyphony more with the one from "Come Heavy Sleep", but it kept the darker and "heavy" style from "In darkness...", and it is also again more vocal-focused. The kettle drums will also play more tricky rhythms as they only played very simple things on the last one.

How is Christina's voice, comparing with Tania's or your sister's? Will she appear on future works too?

She also has a very classic orientated voice, but in contrary to Tania, her voice is far higher and with a much wider pitch range. Cause of that I was able to make far more than two female vocal tunes. Originally I made many songs solely for my vocal and for a female one, but because of Christina's pitch range I changed a lot of them to two female vocal tunes. Therefore the CD is more female vocal orientated than ever before. She has a high, clear and classical voice which can also spread much power if necessary, but is not so exaggerated, exactly what I wanted. Tania's voice was a bit too low for me, and my sister simply had a too week voice for the music I had in my mind. This new singer is really the best suiting one I ever had.

How did you find Christina? Did she sing in the past with any other bands?

I was chatting with a guy from Turkey and he mentioned a girl that he knows that can sing well, but she's too shy to ask me if she can sing for DVKE. Well, so I got in contact with her and she showed me a link to her samples and I immediately knew that she has the right voice for my songs.

What can you tell me about her?

She is 19 years old, she was born in Thessaloniki, but now lives in Athens.

How many pieces, how long is the album and what develop the lyrics?

There will be 9 songs (one instrumental outro included). The songs will be 6-8 minutes long. The complete playing time will be 56 min. Again the lyrics are taken from Shelly and Dowland, but this time also from a friend of mine, Grigorii Petrenko, who also wrote some of the Ice Ages lyrics on "This Killing Emptiness".

Could you describe me the tracks, please?

Dusk and Void Became Alive - the slowest track, focusing on full strings, consisting mainly on very long layered harmonics not with many notes, but many layers. Also the tune is rather simple, but therefore quite mighty.

Winters Night - for me the best kettle drum rhythm I ever created for DVKE (maybe the best ever). Full string sounds and two very independent simultaneous female voices and also two vocal tunes. It's Christina's favourite, but it might confuse some people cause of the two vocals at the same time.

Cease To Breath - again a pure piano vocal track similar to "Mistrust" but with my vocal as well (together with an independent vocal from Christina). The piano takes over more parts then on "Mistrust" (the track you are listening right now) and has more refrain effect.

Virtues Cloak - mainly based on oboe, bassoon and also with a quite trick kettle drum rhythm. Very independent oboe and bassoon tunes, also again like on "Winters Night", two very independent vocal tunes from Christina (when I say independent I don't mean anything like indie-music ;-) I just mean that the tunes are playing opposite stuff together).

Unquiet Thoughts - full string, with highly kettle drums (a bit simpler than in the rest of the tracks) and with a very mighty effect. In some parts you can hear me with one voice too and Christina with two. Also with some kind of SUMMONING fanfare tunes.

Praise Blindness Eyes - my first funeral march song since the old "Requiem" on the debut. Rather simple instrumental tune, but again polyphonic vocals (one of my vocal tune and two of Christina's).

Moon Muse - starting with a very mighty horns-trumpet orchestra (for me more mighty than any SUMMONING song), but turning into a more tender strings song when the vocals start (again two of Christina's voice tunes).

Catharsis - is a pure piano track, without vocals. It reminds me very much of the short piano tracks of the debut (at least a friend said that).

Generally the greatest new thing about the album will be the very high focus on polyphonic vocals (that for example in "In Darkness..." only happen in the song "Brief Even as Bright") and stronger focus on female vocals. This is actually a side effect of the very wide pitch range of Christina, that Tania did not have, so many female vocal tunes where not possible with her.

Listening to "Mistrust" track (the second one of the album and the track you are listening right now), the new sound seems interesting, and the female vocal is a more expressive, calm and melancholic one, with excellent inflexions... there is a dreaming and floating atmosphere...

Christina's voice can reach at least an octave higher. Tania was not able to sing this tune cause of the high pitch, and for Christina I even made the song higher, because I liked the fact that I finally have a singer that reaches the very high notes. Now that the recording is over, I realize that Christina is exactly the kind of singer I've always wanted. Even back the times when Tania sung, my ideal of a female singer was the one from MIRANDA SEX GARDEN (with their first CD where they sing those renaissance songs). And yesterday, my co-worker, when he heard the sample (without knowing my preferences to MIRANDA SEX GARDEN's vocal) immediately said, that her voice reminds him on this particular singer :-)

The grand piano sounds excellent on "Mistrust" track (the track you are listening right now), but the piece is a very simple one and the main focus is on voice and piano... from this point of view the music is a little draft or modest...

Well I don't think I used the word "simple" (rather modest as instrumentation or something like that), cause the vocal tunes follow a very long melody-line (and the piano does not play plain chords, but some kind of background tunes and also main tunes), longer than most of the lines from "In darkness let me dwell". I guess you just talk about the complexity of sounds. But as I am a true fan of Tori Amos and I actually like the songs only with piano and voice, in most cases I really like this voice piano combination. But again I see that so many attitudes that are normally considered objective are quite subjective, even attitudes like "simple". Some consider that only total dissonant songs are complex, others only see songs with plenty of riffs as complex (and therefore consider SUMMONING as the simplest band of the world), other rather talk about the sound. If I am to take TRIARII (or ARCANA) as example, I can see that their orchestration is very complex and perfect done with a mighty sound, but if I listen to the tunes they are very, very simple (nothing bad about that). And I think that it is not possible to focus totally on both, complexity of the sound and complexity of the tune, so my decision is to make songs that focus on the complexity of the tunes and also make sounds that rather focus on the complexity of the sounds. I guess you will like "Winters Night" very much (it's Christina's favourite), but for now 90% of all listeners liked "Mistrust" most, that's why I've chosen it for future compilations.

I know I waited many years for the album. I wonder if you already have in mind other tracks? So, should we wait again for more than 5 years for a new album, maybe?

The reason for the delay was without a doubt the singer Sinem I've worked with before I got to know Christina. We already made a fine track with her voice, but after some defeats in the studio she got terribly passive and passionless so that, week by week, she delayed the recordings and after 18 months I gave up waiting for her and started to work on SUMMONING. This had an awful effect on all of my music. Without her SUMMONING and DVKE would have already been released a long time ago, and ICE AGES would have been definitely also ready. Well, anyway, those times are over and I really hope that I never get such bad luck as I had in the last years, so there is no reason to expect such a long rest again. Otherwise I don't have any new tunes in my mind because I don't deal with new tunes before the actual CD is totally completed (this also means the interviews for a CD etc). But I already made a new mix of a Summoning songs, and released that due to this horrible time of musical rest; a lot of ideas were created inside my head and I think that therefore also the new ICE AGES will not take too long.

Are you satisfied with the mastering of the album?

Of course I am, otherwise I would not have sent the master CD to Napalm Records. I would never release something if I don't consider it 100% perfect. I would rather spend many more months making it perfect.

Why didn't you invite any other persons on DVKE albums, or used other instruments or more vocals, for example? Is it a matter of egoism, maybe?

I like the idea of making music with the keyboards (and the more years pass the more I like this idea, as I really dislike more and more the idea of copying classical music). For me keyboards are a great way of keeping musical independency and sticking to the underground. I like the way from the musical idea in my head to the final CD to be as short and direct as possible. With keyboards, I have a better control on the tune better than with all other solutions.

Why isn't "Come, Heavy Sleep" album re-released under Napalm edition? Is it just of matter of lay-out or we could discuss about a fight between you and Oliver?

The main reason is the missing layout, and my lack of time for reconstructing it. I'd rather like to deal with new songs than with the reconstruction of old albums. I don't think that there is a fight anymore, just the files got deleted by accident, but I don't know much about this.

What can you tell me about ICE AGES?

For all new songs I have fine synth and vocal tunes, but still the rhythms and sounds are missing. But, I can already say that the new album will be slower, and darker, and also more rough and kind of "dirty" (as I dealt a lot with virtual analog synthesis, enabling me more control over the sound. It will focus more on the tunes (as far as I can judge now) and keep the vocal style as well as the allover mood of "This killing emptiness".

How is life in Vienna now? How is a normal day for you? I know you've worked for an IT company in the past...

I work 32 hours a week as a programmer, on Thursdays I always take a free day for music. So my live consists on job, music and my girlfriend.

In the past you used to listen to Metal bands, besides other Dark Wave or Ethereal ones. For example, STOA has many musical identities with DVKE, am I right? Do you still listen to Olaf Parusel's music?

Actually I don't have much time to listen to music and am really not up to date anymore with most Dark Wave bands. I was only really impressed by the first STOA, and most of the bands I've liked in the past changed in a way that made me not like them so much anymore. And in these times, as keyboards get more and more unpopular and everybody is talking about real instruments and orchestra, I loose more and more my interest in Dark Wave bands, because I don't want Dark Wave to become a kind of pseudo classical music, and the dark aspect should never be forgotten in this kind of music, otherwise you can listen to normal soundtracks. Moreover, as I don't know many people listening to Dark Wave, I have problems finding new bands, but there are surely always fine ones. For example, the band TRIARII makes a very fine music, very dark and mighty. The music I am listening to mostly is still some kind of EBM, but once again I have huge problems finding good music in this style because nowadays techno beats are poling this scene terribly and all darkness has completely gone. One of the very few bands that still created EBM with some tunes and rhythms, yet not forgetting about the pure negative aspects, is the band ACYLUM.

You used to have a lot of contacts and great projects, such as GRABESMOND, ABIGOR, KOROVA, DARGAARD, AMESTIGON... it was a great Dark Austrian scene... What is your opinion about the past and, moreover, about the new scene?

Actually I don't follow any scenes anymore. I still meet Alex from DARGAARD for example, from time to time, when I have time to go out, but not as often as in the past; simply because time has become shorter over all those years.

Have you kept the contact with PAZUZU?

No, hardly. Since he moved to Canada I only spoke a few lines in a year time. That's all.

Tania (ex-female DVKE's voice) has now moved in Italy and she had already become a mother. Have you kept the contact with her, did she listen to any of your new frames, maybe? And did she use to sing in any other projects?

I broke all contact with her, I just know that she moved back to Austria and she is planning to get married. I cannot imagine her singing in any kind of other band, because the last time I heard her, she was so passive and out of training that I think she is simply not interested in singing anymore. But who knows what happened to her meanwhile, maybe I am wrong.

Did you like the new WELTENBRAND album? If you read my review regarding it, you'll see a lot of ideas linking it to DVKE and a lot of fans made plenty of analogies between the two bands' sound... Moreover, you released an album on MOS label...

Well, it is no wonder if WELTENBRAND has similarities with DVKE, because actually the DVKE debut was the main inspiration for Oliver. As I remember, he told me that he started to make music in this style because of this DVKE debut. But I did not listen to the new release (I hardly listened to any kind of music in the last months, there's too much stress).

You and Silenius are alongside for more than ten years. How did you survive in this formula for SUMMONING? Did you like his Martial Industrial project KWO?

It is only natural to continue the way we did. Composing is still fresh and interesting for us (and even became more interesting for me since we make the sound by our own). We never had any kind of feeling that we are running out of ideas, it even gets easier for me over all the years. Actually the first KWO CD was too chaotic and stressing for me as I rather like slow music, but the new one is very fine. The rhythms are mightier and more "controlled" and the tunes suit better.

In the meantime, Classical music was a power criteria for your inspiration. What kind of music you are you listening to now and how do you see the link between three different styles of music (SUMMONING, DVKE and ICE AGES) and on single person, you? Thanks.

Well, I was surely influenced by the theoretical aspect of classical music and its polyphony etc., but I don't think that DVKE ever made something a narrow minded classical music fan would accept, and I never headed for such an aim. Anyway, I think the music I am listening to is not really affecting the music I create. Therefore it does not matter if I listen to harsh EBM music when I make music for DVKE. I think that musical influence shall never be too direct and simple. Surely any music I listen to has an indirect influence on the music I make, but I think this trendy way to use any kind of musical elements you listen to directly in the music (what is called crossover, or new metal ...) is quite a banal approach. For example, for a while I got very attracted to oriental music. I started to learn darabuka/doumbek, and train my abilities to make trick rhythms with the fingers. This had a great influence on my music as I finally involved my body again in the music (whereas with the keyboard, you only use our brain), but it definitely does not lead to the effect that the music I create suddenly will get an Arabic influence.

Which are your expectations regarding this album and when will we have the chance to see you live?

Well the main thing for DVKE was and always will be melodies and melancholy. Without one of both DVKE would not be DVKE anymore. From release to release I vary, but I always keep the main idea in my mind. This new album is a kind of combination of "Come Heavy Sleep" and "In Darkness...", far darker than "Come ..." but as polyphonic.

How do you like the idea of having a DVKE concert as a show? ... in a small club, with candles, obscure light.... with a few females dancing a kind of ballet, maybe?

Actually I don't think that it is really a suiting music for live performances, but if I was to imagine one I'd rather like one with candles and with people having the opportunity to sit than a typical rock concert.

What is your opinion regarding the fight between Jews and Lebanon, about American expanding policy in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, about the expansive European Union approach in the East of this continent? What about Nazi and Socialist-Nationalist reborn activities from worldwide? Hitler was an Austrian... Are you proud of this, maybe?

For me Hitler was just a fake hypocrite nationalist, who in the end did not mind destroying all of his beloved German country and the killing of his folk, just to sit safe in his stupid bunker and relax while thousands were dying each day of his life. He was the greatest enemy of all free thinking people and any kind of minority culture, and I can only explain this tendency of the actual Black Metal scene for Nazi movements as a lack of thinking about all this. Metal came from blue and is therefore actually "nigger-music" as Varg Vikernes already said. Most of our classical instruments (like oboe, lute etc.) derived from Arabic instruments. Also I can not see any pure Aryan culture in any kind of European music. I think USA is actually now doing the same as Hitler did back his times, but USA is doing it a bit slower and a bit wiser by taking its time to control the world step by step. I have no sympathies at all with Moslem terrorist and for me they are just Nazis, as their attack is against innocent people, but I see all this just as an effect of this USA approach to control the world more and more. And I deeply regret all people suffering because of this. I make no difference between Lebanon or Israel. I would not like if any bomb destroys my house or studio, and so surely no guy from Lebanon or Israel does.

... say a dark hello to all my readers!

I hope the Romanian listeners will like the new album, because I definitely do think there are a couple of tunes inside that might catch many of the old fans. I hope you did not forget about DVKE over all those long unintentional years of silence :-)

Richard, thank you for your patience and for your existence! The music you create is a superb one, and I am sure that the fans from all over the world now have new reason to experience this very autumn with more confortable and alluring colour shades.

September 2006.